TAPE # and time code

Audio

B22

Sid Parnes talking with Gregg Fraley

22:11:01:00

22:13:19:01

[It is my pleasure to be here today with Sid Parnes, he is the Professor Emeritus, and Founding Director for the Center in Studies of Creativity, …Co-Founder of the Osborne-Parnes Creative Solving Problem Process. Welcome]

Thank-you, good to be here Gregg.

[If you could just step through your own background for a minute, tell us about yourself]

You know all my life; I thought education could be something more then what I had been experiencing. I pretty much took the attitude you either went to class or read the book, there was no use doing both, they where pretty much the same thing. I just felt there had to be something more, and so when I went into education finally myself, I would teach courses like; Methods to turn a course around into some interesting ways off dealing

[ um-eh]

with and engaging the student. But this was just from my own kind of bent – in this. And in 1955 I saw the description of this first Creative Problem Solving Institute in Buffalo. The program made me feel, these people are really operationalizing what I have been thinking all my life. So – I had to get up here, I won’t go into all the details of how that happened, but I made it up to the first Institute. I just felt this was what I was looking for all my life, as far as education.

The concept that imagination was so important, and how to stimulate it in yourself. I was a good decision maker, a good logical thinker, but I had no conception of how to do this other. And I went back and I revamped all my, - I drove - and from Buffalo to Pittsburgh, I must have pulled off 25 times, filled sheets with ideas, how to change my courses around, bring this element into it, and so on, so forth, so that is generally the way it all began.

22:13:19:15

22:14:19:03

[So that was your introduction, to the whole concept of applied imagination]

Right, right

[And applied creativity, tell me how you got more involved as the years went by, and tell me about your relationship with Alex Osborn]

Well what I did when I went back, before I left, I buttonholed Alex in the audience, at the end of the session and said, “If I would be able to develop a Creative Retailing Program”, cause I was at the school of retailing, which is a unique masters program at the University of Pittsburgh. And I said – “If I could get the dean and the staff to come up with a Creative Retailing Institute, would you come down, and bring some of the people that you introduced to me here in the Buffalo program”. And this was one of the very first invitations he had ever had from an education person. See it was all over industry, but education didn’t touch it with a ten-foot pole.

22:14:19:05

22:14:37:10

[So the process and this whole concept, evolved out of the business world]

Right, right, and that’s why many academicians – “what’s an advertising man going to tell us, about education, and teaching and learning and so on” that was a real difficult pill for them to swallow.

22:14:37:15

22:17:13:01

[Its kind of ironic, because now, one of the challenges we have is getting CPS spread wider in the business world]

Yes, although, let me put it to you this way. That first program I was at, there where about 10% educators, but educators was in a general sense, they may have been training directors in a company or something

[um-eh]

Very few people from education, in the traditional sense. 90% were from business, see. And over the years, that gradually equalized, to the point where business became so strong, that we then had to try to do things to get the balance with education up there. Because it is that beautiful balance and diversity that makes this institute a unique thing. You don’t have programs generally, professional programs, where you have every element of life represented. Lawyers, Doctors, medical people, Accountants, Engineers, Managers, etc., etc.

It’s that unique blend that lends itself to the broad knowledge base that is necessary for creativity. The broader the knowledge base the more the imagination can churn ideas out, you see. So it’s been just exciting to see that grow and develop over the years. And so many people, there was a man from a college, University, up in Canada, who used to come down here, for a couple a years, and then he told me that the Dean said to him, “You have got to chose one professional conference to go to, we have to cut the budget and you can only go to one” so he said “I will chose the Creative Problem Solving Institute”, well he came down here again, and then when he went back, the next year he asked for it again, and the dean said “Why would you keep going back there, you have your profession and everything…”, he says, “This is the most important professional conference I have ever attended, and I get more out of it every year, then I could possible get out of anything else”, and that is the way it goes. The um… What happens here is so different then what happens at a traditional professional conference, and I could say too, that over the years, more and more conferences have been borrowing our methods and our techniques. And making conferences something more then paper reading sessions.

[Yes, yes]

22:17:13:05

22:18:11:15

[Lets revisit the evolution of the process, you where a young educator and you began too incorporate some of these applied imagination concepts into your own teachings…]

Exactly

[and you made initial contact with Alex Osborn, tell us about how it became the Osborn-Parnes CPS process]

I wish I could tell you that. I am flattered by that. Because really Osborn had these concepts. If you look at his earliest writing, he probably had three steps, and, but if you look at those three steps very carefully, you see that they cover the five steps, that I have in it right now. But we worked together, and learned from each other, but I think most of the credit goes to him for the initial concepts, and I simply refined them and developed them, and took them to another level.

22:18:11:24

22:23:30:05

[How did you work together?]

Well, I had the good fortune to spend ten years, the last ten years of his life, see he made this, I called it refirement, one of our leaders coined that term some years later,

[as opposed to retirement]

As opposed to retirement. He was literally retired from Batton, Barton, Durstine and Osborn, the advertising agency, either he was totally retired by the time I first meet him, or he was very close to it, he was Chairman of the Board for a number of years.

[Right]

He would go to the board meetings even after he was Chairman. But the point is – He made up his mind that he wanted to devote his life to

[In refirement]

In refirement, well Alex would never have stopped, whatever he did, but he wanted to devote to this, developing a more creative trend in American education, was one of the ways he expressed it.

[OK]

Because he already saw it in business, but he wanted it in education, and that’s why he was so anxious, you see, I was probably the first PhD. That approached him and said, can we take this and do it at our University. He was just elated, with that opportunity.

[uh-um]

And then the thing he found out about me that was interesting, in discussions that we had years later. So many people would come to him and say, “Mr. Osborn, this is wonderful, I’d like to do a program, would you help me do it”. And he would be very generous with his time and everything, But he would find that 99% of those people would then come up and say, “Now tell me what to do and I’ll do it” you know, And what he found me doing, I would go back and I would use the process to develop a bunch of questions I wanted him to answer for me and next steps that I wanted, he just saw that I was making it live, and making it work.

[uh-huh]

So he was delighted and he came down, and as a result of that, he developed at the University, a willingness to bring me up, as the first full-time person working in this area. They had been doing experimental work, since 1949, the very first class in this took place on the South Campus, here of this university

[Buffalo University]

Buffalo University, and it was an experimental class, Alex used to come out with Stu Amble, the cartoonist, who was one of the BBDO account executives, Bob Anderson, there is a whole group of names, and they would take turns, coming out and planning a session, and running it, in this experimental class, and then they would go back talk it over, and decide what we should the next night and so on.

That started as early as “49” and by “53” there was a faculty member in the school of, department of retailing that was interested enough to sponsor it as a daytime credit course for students, and “53” became the first daytime credit course.

And that’s the way it went, but you see, his goal, he, talked himself sick to educators, people in the school of education

[Yes]

Psychologists,

[Yes]

People in Psychology departments, that’s were he saw this belonging, he couldn’t get to first base with that, when these people from the business and retailing saw it as a possibility. It was interesting we offered this course, and it was so popular, that we, we didn’t want more then 25 people in it, because the involving nature of it,

[Sure]

And so students, by word of mouth, from medicine, from law, from everywhere, came to this course, not just retailing students, you see. And it would be like on a waiting list bases. And so, I became totally convinced it had to be an interdisciplinary kind of program. When I first went to Sate College, and that’s another long story, but they agreed to experiment with this for two years, with me, with the faculty, and see whether the faculty would support this and accept this whole-heartedly, as an under-graduate program, that would be part of every students opportunity to take. And, um, I, The first time I offered a course, one of the first experimental courses here, I went to registration, to help in registration, and it was under the education

[Yes]

See, so I listened to students, “that looks like an interesting-Oh, that’s education” they walk right by, See.

[Yes]

So for 17 years, I fought, and believe me we had 7 vice presidents for academic affairs, in those 17 years, and every time a new one came in – I fought to stay as a inter-disciplinary effort. They would all say to me, we have learned about your program here, which department can we put you in now; you don’t belong out here in this general area.

22:23:30:15

22:25:42:10

[People have to learn that creativity, and creative thinking is for everyone]

Exactly

[Let me ask you a question, If you could briefly describe – What type of person was Alex Osborn?]

Alex was a brilliant man, and a par-excellence writer; I learned so much from him about writing that was one of his powerful strengths. But his idea power was tremendous. But like many creative people, that are flashing through my mind right now that I have known through our Institute here, he was a very conventional person dress wise; for example, I felt that we really had to make the institute people feel comfortable, and recognize that there is an informality about this. And so, at the very first institute, when I was a leader, I made a pact with the Dean, of the College of the Business in Georgia, University of Georgia

He and I where going to wear sport shits, and sit on the stage in sport shirts, and Alex Osborn was in a white shirt and tie, and business suit and so on, and he never changed that, you see.

[He stayed true to himself]

That was him, right, he wore a hat, that is, people would talk about that beat up hat of Alex’s, he did not care about things like that.

[That’s interesting]

But he was a man, full of ideas. And his brain sparked ideas, and he did not care about the conventional things in life.

[And yet he was very successful in the conventional business world]

Oh, very very successful. And this process, that he discovered, was as a result. He used to turn to his account executives and say bring me back a dozen ideas for this, and he found it was like pulling teeth. And then so he invented brainstorming, he would get a half dozen or so, of them together, and he found they could produce ideas, when they relaxed judgment, and let ideas flow, and so on.

22:25:42:24

22:28:10:01

[Lets, talk about that – What is the importance of Judgment Deferral in any creative process?]

It is so critical because, your mind and your brain has been taught to close fast and make links and if you have conventional, traditional links it will follow them.

[Yes, Yes]

OK, Look, Lets try this. Say the first word that comes to your mind, when I say this; Table

[Chair]

OK, see I took a big chance there, because I do that with audiences of a thousand, and you can not hear anything but chair, it’s the most common associative link to the word table in the English language.

[Right]

So my gamble was that you would give it too, you could have given some others, there are other links, but you see – what the brain does, it goes that way

[Sure]

And unless we teach the brain to let go, and think up, and it will do it, it will think up many, many connections and alternatives but it will form traditional patterns if you don’t

[Just follow the same’ol path]

George Land, who is one of our very powerful leaders here at CPSI, he once put it this way, he said, “If you look at biological creativity and look at psychological creativity” he says “In nature, nature operates by putting out countless mutations, and the survival of the fittest process takes place.”

[Yes]

And the strongest survive. He said, “ The brain is natures highest form of development.” And it uses the same process there, the brain has the capacity to spew out countless mutations, which we call ideas

[Um-huh]

And the brain has a parallel ability to internally examine these and bring out the strongest, after it has considered all of them, but the point is if you don’t let the brain do that, if you don’t train the brain to do that, it will close in on habitual connections, and its hard to break that and get to

[so you are back to table and chair again]

Yeah right, it’s a very simplistic way of putting it but I think it

[it illustrates it]

Yes

22:28:10:19

22:29:01:15

[There is another principle that people talk about in terms of creativity, its Tolerance of Ambiguity]

Yes

[Talk to me about that]

Well the first thing I will say is – you see Frank Baron, was the man who I think coined that term, Tolerance for Ambiguity, and what I say to Frank and everyone else is, I don’t only want a tolerance for Ambiguity but I want to invite Ambiguity, I want to honor Ambiguity, you see

[Uh-huh]

Because the more ambiguity there is the more potential unusual connections can happen, and this is where breakthrough creativity takes place.

[Uh-huh]

You see, it doesn’t take place from looking at everything in the comfortable organized way.

[Yes]

I mean, chaos provides the opportunity to create a new order.

[Yes]

You see

[I see]

And that is the way we look at it.

22:29:01:19

22:32:17:15

[Another principle is Positive Affirmation – talk to me about Positive Affirmation]

Positive Affirmation is, let me think how I might best say this,

[OK]

You, You, - convince yourself that you can do something.

[OK]

And that to me is what Positive Affirmation concerns – people go in front of a mirror before they go in for an interview, and they  build themselves up

[Build themselves up, sure]

Right, this is positive affirmation. In today’s creativity programs – imagery is used very strongly for that. We have people, for instance, I will take people all the way through to a plan of action that they have invented and are excited about using. Then I will say, now close your eyes, and I will relax them a little bit, and I will say, now play that through, and see that happening, feel it happening, hear it, smell it, taste it, just get totally absorbed in its happening very successfully, the way you want it to happen.

[Uh-huh]

And then, come back, and they have a determination, Yes, I have seen it, I can do it, I can do it. Its that kind of thing. There are a lot of other ways that can be used.

[Yes]
I think to me that’s the essence of what people talk about as Positive Affirmation.

[Yes]

You see, One thing I would like to say about this. I have a cartoon, and let me see if I can show you this imagery, just by explaining it.

[OK]

It shows there two fellows, strung up, with the manacles to the wall, in an impossible situation

[in a prison]

In a prison, in a dungeon, and there is an iron door to the dungeon, with a heavy key, and so on, and the one guy looks at the other and says, “Hey look, some one left the door open”

[Laughs]

That is a part of what I mean, by positive affirmation, this man has enough of a powerful positive attitude that he says, someway we can take advantage of that and use it.

[Its almost the role of motivation, in creativity]

Motivation, and an optimistic positive outlook, see.

[Yes]

But now, I’ll let you image another cartoon, the same two guys are hung up, but they are not only hung up with their hands, but their legs are manacled, and they are spread eagled against the wall, in heavy manacles all the way through, in this deep concrete dungeon with bars across the top, no doors, nothing.

[OK]

One looks at the other, and says, “Now, here is my plan”

See, now that to me is, the most beautiful manifestation of what creative problem solving is all about. Its not only that this man had the attitude and positive thinking, that by god we can get out of this, but he had the ability to spin the imagination, develop new concepts, come up with a plan, you see,

[Uh-huh]

So, that’s the totality, that one cartoon, shows what Creative Problem Solving is all about.

22:32:17:10

22:37:14:02

[I want to talk to you about two things, that that brings up to me, one is the role of humor in creativity, Humor is often times, sited by experts in creativity, as very similar to what happens when you have a good idea, can you talk about that]

Oh, absolutely, humor is Ha-Ha, and creativity is ‘Aha’, if I say to you, half of eight is four, that is alright, yeah,

[Sure]

What if I say half of eight is zero, and I really mean it.

[OK]

How?

[You cut the eight in half]

All right, have you ever heard that before?

[Huh, no]

No, all right. I do this with audiences and I watch, I would like to do it sometime with a mirror behind me, because I would like them to see, the smiles that lights up on their faces, or the twinkle in their eye, when they say, “Oh yeah, half of eight…” now they are thinking visually, instead of mathematically, they did a paradigm shift, but they had to do that, in order to make sense out of that.

Now, when they did it, they got an ‘Aha’. And I say ‘Aha’s’ come in every voltage from ½ a volt to a 220.

[Um-huh]

Most people think of ‘Aha’s as Archimedes in a bathtub and Sir Isaac Newton with the apple, but you can get little ‘Aha’s like that and as we go through the CPS process, people get little ‘Aha’s – new insights that become additive and come out with an entirely different plan that they did not have before, you see.

Now, what’s the Ha-Ha, the ha-ha is the same thing, its when you suddenly see something that you see one way, and then the jokester brings you to another way of seeing it, and you suddenly – what’s his name, um, uh, - Kessler, Arthur Kessler,

[Yes]

called it the bi-association theory. He said, two planes intersect that are going at opposite angles, and suddenly they make a bridge here, and – let me think of a very simple - or maybe you can think at the same time - a very simple joke, and show how that happens

[Why does a chicken cross the road]

Alright

[To get to the other side]

To get to the other side, OK, you are trying to think of all kinds of profound answers, and then you give me that simple one,

[The expected one was the right one all a long]

Right, or take, see I have a collection of cartoons, showing how cartoonists, use the CPS process to generate ideas, now there is one that I just showed, so its very familiar to me, it shows a man, in an over width bathtub, over length, over width, sitting there in the water, in the bathtub, with a piano

[Yes, OK]

and his wife is over on the side and she says, “Other men just sing in the bathtub”

[Laugh]

You see, now, you see how the cartoonist just used a changed situation, a magnified and distorted situation to create a Ha-Ha. And that’s what happens in creativity and usually when we get a new idea, there is an element of surprise and even humor about it.

[Yes]

And we say to people, if you, I say to audiences, try and come up with something that will make you laugh, when I try to get them to think up with new ideas in what they are doing. I say think of your favorite food, hobby, or sport and now connect something from that to this thing they are working on, and their first reaction is “what the heck – does that have to do with this”, and now all of a sudden, “Ah, yes”, they see a connection, and that’s the ‘Aha’, so we stand on our heads in CPS to help people connect diverse things, in new ways, that is where creativity comes from, and that is the heart of the creative process.

[Uh-huh]

As a matter of fact, for about ten years, in my long experience with this, people would say what is the most important thing in this creative process, I would say “Differ Judgment”,

[OK]

I no longer say that,

[What do you say now]

I say ‘Making a fresh connection”, see. Teaching people how to make more connections. Then when you add differ judgment to that they can make more

[They can make lots of connections]

Yeah, see, but you might, with your first try, it’s a probability game, you might make a diverse connection that leads you to an important solution, see,

[Interesting]

At the differ judgment, ups the probabilities.

22:37:14:20

22:38:26:14

[Talk to me about why you think there is some resistance in the business world to this term creativity]

You know, we have talked about this so many times Gregg; we have talked about the name of our institute, having the name creative. Creative tended to get a faddish connection to it. You see, first people, historically, when I did the first seminar’s, with people, I would say, what’s creative mean

[Yes]

and they would talk about art, music, this that, they never talked about anything but the arts. in general, you know. Then they would see, it also happens in cooking, and in business, it happens here. Abraham Maslow once said “I would rather have first rate cooking, then third rate art”, see, because the creativity can come anywhere, now…

[Is everyone creative?]

Yes. Everyone is creative in terms of having the potential for doing things, by making new connections. Everybody does it, at sometime or other, some people do it a lot more, then others.

22:38:26:17

22:40:11:13

[If you are a business manager, and you where trying to … integrate more creativity into the environment, what would you do, as some small steps?]

Small steps,

[To get started]

Yeah, I am thinking of some big steps…small steps

[Lets think of big steps]

Well, big steps - Send them to a place like Creative Problem Solving Institute.

[OK]

It will turn their thinking around.

I have a new book called, Optimize the Magic of Your Mind, that book is designed to be a hands on reading - CPSI.

[OK]

In other words, its all doing, it’s using the process, being lead through it by me, in a verbal sense, but actually responding. That would be the next best thing; they could do that and gain a great deal from it.

They could bring in a consultant to spend an hour, a little step, to just bring some awareness, some interest.

[A little bit of thinking about how they think]

About how they think, invariably, like I think of a one-hour session I did with school principles. And the nicest compliment I had at the end of it was, this principle said “Dr. Parnes, you have shaken up the molecules in our brains, and I don’t think they will ever fall back into exactly the same place” You see that’s what happens with this, especially when people are involved in it.

B23

Sid Parnes (Continued)

22:49:47:25

22:51:19:01

[Sid can you briefly describe the Creative Problem Solving process?]

I am sure I can, briefly describe it, let me try and see, you probe with me, and see if it needs something more, as we go along.

[OK]

First of all, the process starts with sensitivity, an awareness, and a desire to do something. If you don’t have that, a lot of people, yeah know, are just zombies in terms of the way they are reacting to life, and they don’t see any desires or, aren’t sensitive to problems or challenges so,

[OK]

We do things in the process to help people recognize that and deal with that effectively,

[OK]

That becomes a very important part. Then we go into the traditional five steps that people usually know.

The first is Fact Finding.

[OK]

What we are saying there is; let us open up our minds to an even greater awareness of whatever this is we desire, or a problem. A greater awareness, seeing more of it

[Yes]

Understanding, perceiving it in new ways

[Yes]

From that we begin to formulate what we think the problem is,

[Alright]

We usually start that with an expression like, “How to…” or “What ways might I…”,

[Yes]

Because we to have the person be forward thrusting in the statement that they chose as the problem.

22:51:19:20

22:53:17:10

[What is the importance of these…these stems, these invitational statements?]

Alright, “In what ways might I…” has four main points to it.

First – What ways – one answer does not suffice,

[OK]

You have to come up with

[It encourages multiple]

Exactly, divergence.

Second - Might – not could, should, very open - subjunctive. What ways might I…

Three – I – not what might the government do, what ought this, see, its what might I do, and then the following word is usually a verb, action, what might I do to develop some action in this direction that I want to go.

[OK]

OK?

[OK, so you start off with a sensitivity, an awareness that you want to do, or a motivation to do something]

Desire.

[About an issue, some problem or whatever. You go into fact finding]

You already have some facts about it, but you try to expand that understanding, in a greater way.

[Um-huh]

Then you move into Problem Finding with this stem word concept that I mentioned, to try and ask yourself a question that motivates your forward movement.

[So, In what ways might I, then you develop multiple possibilities in terms of what the problem might be]

Yes, before you start looking for ideas, What ways might I, oh, what ways might I, and you begin to see, OH, and you begin to perceive the problem in a 180 degree around another direction. And you play with that, until you open up many possibilities, and then you say, which one would I really like to pursue, which one intrigues me, which one might take me where I want to go.

22:53:17:15

22:56:38:10

[What’s the power, if you will, of divergence or multiple problem, ]

Definitions?

[Statements]

Statements, I will tell you an example, and you will see the power.

[OK]

OK, because this is one of the most profound ones, I ever had.

I had a group that I was… It was in the third day of a three-day seminar in a retreat. And these were executives, OK?

[Yes]

They went through the process several times, all the way through the process,

[Yes]

This was like the final attempt, to burn it into them, so to speak. I had assigned them to go out into the woods even, and see whether they could make some connections with nature that would make them more aware of data about their challenge that they were working on, and then I said, go into problem finding, and make a list of What ways might I…

[OK]

And then start into with brainstorming for ideas on the selected one.

I come over to this one group, and they are brainstorming, I don’t see any list that these came from, but they are brainstorming a question that is up there

[Yes]

And the first chance I had I said fellows…

And they where all fellows in those days, now we have woman in the program just as frequently as men,

Where is the list that you choose that from, What ways might I..

And they said, Oh, the minute we started we realized that this is the problem so we went right ahead. I said, oh come on, you are going to make me flunk as an instructor, here we are in the final run through and you skip on of the major steps, now please just for me, come up with ten, and then you can go right back to this one if you want to, well, they really resented me, but I cajoled them, and I kidded them, I will give you the first one, In what ways might we, and then begrudgingly someone said, in what way might we, and a third one - in what ways might we, and a forth one – OH, in what ways might we,

You see what is starting to happen

[Uh-huh]

And then this one guy, on the ninth one, literally went off his chair,

If I had a video of this I would love it

Oh my god, what ways might we, and it was a 180 degree shift, and then I kidded them when we got number ten, anyway they worked on that, but before they started working on it, the one that they realized was really the problem, he said, “Yeah know, Sid, if I had left here in an hour, when we are going to leave, and someone had asked me, how was that course on CPS, I would’ve said, well that Sid, is really nice guy, and he is fun, but I really don’t know what it is all about, it seemed like a lot of fun and games” he said, “This is the first time I really understand”

[So he got his ‘Aha’]

He got a big ‘Aha’, and he understood what the whole thing was

[In spite of]

And that is what happens, people get ‘Aha’s in different stages depending. Sometimes in fact finding, sometimes in problem, and so on, but problem finding, most people acknowledge is one of the most critical, cause it makes them really try to do some perceptual shifts.

[See the problem in a different way sometimes leads to a fast path in finding a solution]

Exactly.

22:56:38:10

22:57:49:01

[Talk to me about the next step]

Then quickly, in Solution Finding, we are trying to find all the criteria, that impinge on all the reality of what we can make happen,

[Yes]

And so, up to this stage we have played imaginatively, we have got all kinds of ideas…

[In the idea finding stage]

In the idea finding, and now we say, what are all the possible effects, consequences, concerns that might occur if we used some of these ideas. And we begin to evaluate, and choose, with full awareness of the criteria, you see, and then it almost flows, hand in hand. From that you begin to refine ideas to make them more compatible with reality, you see,

[Uh-huh]

And you bring them down to earth, and you find ways of making them enticing, ways to make them useful, ways to make them valuable, and we call that Acceptance Finding. The last one. And that is often one of the most difficult, I would say usually, aspects because there you are going to build a plan and get it into action

22:57:49:05

22:58:49:09

[One of the criticisms sometimes people have of brainstorming, and I know CPS is more then just brainstorming, but one of the criticisms that sometimes people have is that is doesn’t result in actionable ideas.]

Yeah, well, if it doesn’t they’ve brainstormed, but that is all, in the old days, we where guilty ourselves, so often, of taking somebody that wanted to have some help, and they said, would you lead a brainstorming session with us, we want a bunch of ideas, and we would walk, and say – “gee that was great we gave’em, 200 they got” – but I would come back a week later and say, “how did you do with that”. “Oh that was a great session, we had 200 ideas didn’t we”, “yeah but what did you do with them”, “oh we are going to do something with them”, but nothing happened. Now, if we get 20 ideas, but get them to do something with them, we are happier. You see, we insist on bringing people to evaluation, convergence and plan. You see.

22:58:49:12

23:04:11:10

[What is – describe if you would, that last step in the process. Acceptance Finding.]

We typically use a checklist like; Who, What, When, Where, and How.

Who might help us with this? And we might get fantastic ideas when we really open our minds, divergently again, as to who might help. What groups, what individuals.

What might we do with the idea to make it stronger? What might we add to it? What resources and so on, And then, Where, and When, what special times and places might we carry this out that would add impact to it. Not just the obvious, walk, go into the office, maybe we are going to go out on a boat to talk about this, I don’t know, but I mean

[Sure]

you open peoples minds to realize what difference setting make, that place and time make. And so on, then Why and How I am gonna do it.

How many ways can I think of more advantages, and build advantages into this, and How am I gonna carry it out

[Its almost – you could almost re-term it, the selling of the idea.]

Exactly, but you know the interesting thing, often times, people come to that step, and say yeah, this is the selling step, but I am gonna do it, so I don’t have to sell anybody. I am done. And that’s the biggest mistake, because he’ll go back and all the reasons he has not anything up to this point, begin to emerge, and he won’t do anything. So, what we do at that point, is How do you know you are gonna do it, What’s gonna be your first step, and we will say, do something before the end of the day today, that moves you on to the process,

[Right]

into action, And he’ll say what do you mean today? This is something that is going to happen next November.

I don’t care, What might you do, not should you, what might you do today, and he might say oh I could jot a little memo to this person or I could get this book out or I could do this. And we start them developing a plan, that can take them where they want to go. And then they realize this, - Just one other example

[Sure]

I had a very analytical Attorney once, And his plan he had made up for building this cottage on a piece of land that he owned in the country and he was all delighted about it. And when we came to acceptance finding he said, “What do you mean, I accept it, this is what I want to do”, I said, “What might you do today”, He said, “What are you talking about today, I’m gonna build this thing”. And I teased him enough, so he said, “Ok, I could get this book out, that I am gonna use to help me”, and I said “OK, when are you gonna do that”, he said, “Well when I get back home”, and I said, “What are you gonna do today” and finally he had an ‘Aha’, “I could call my wife, and ask her to go to the library and we could be ready when I got home”, and he began to get excited about what he could do to move this idea into action.

[so its integrating the process with the real world and doing things]

Exactly, doing things, doing something, so we’ll insist – I have a little cartoon, that shows this guy throwing an orange up in the air, and catching it, throwing it up, and catching it, and somebody says, what are you doing – he says I am juggling, and the guy says, with one orange, yeah you gotta start someplace.

And so I say to people, what is your first orange, don’t leave outta here without a first orange. You see, what is your first step. This is what we do with people, and they are so impressed with this, because they have never been pushed that way before, they think I use my ideas, I get all this, and that’s it. No, we make them push it into action in some way. And bring it down to reality, so that maybe they have 25 ideas out here, that they still want to use, but this one here that I am gonna start with, has a beginning and a second step, and  its manageable, it’s verifiable – whether I did it. And then I go back, and one of my first steps can be, that I do this and then I look and pick out next steps from by grab bag of ideas you see, but you push them into action. But action that is very carefully evaluated before, see everything you do in CPS up to action, does not have to affect a soul.  It can be all thought process, and on paper. But the minute you do something, the world is changed, you got consequence and so on, and so, we are very careful, that when we get up to action... I have one cartoon, that shows two trapeze artists and they are flying off their trapeze at the same time, towards each other’s hands, and both of them realize, they did not think this through.

[laugh]

There they are in mid air you see, and is where we are so careful not to leave people. Because they get excited about ideas, and they forget the reality often but the reality is just as important in what we do.

[Absolutely]

23:04:11:15

23:06:43:07

[You where gonna show me one more thing before we concluded.]

I will just give you an example of how simplistic this can be. You know, we are using this in programs over in South Africa, where they have transformed a nation, and using a lot of help from Creative Problem Solving Processes, an it’s the most exciting case study we ever had. But here is the other extreme, here is a guy who had a job of tying three knots in a rope. And that’s what he did all day long in this assembly line, and that’s what he did, tied the knots, threw it on, and picked up another rope. (Sid is demonstrating this with a rope)

[OK]

Well it was a boring disgusting job, and he was sort of disgusted with it, but, but he said, what in the Sam Hill am I doing here, and he began to analyze, fact finding, what am I doing, I am making a loop, and pulling it through, making a loop and pulling it through, and its silky rope, its sort of supple, and he said how could I make this job more fun, how could I do it faster, how could I…, and he began to play with the,  what ways might I…things you see,

[uh-huh]

I wonder if I could make three loops all at once and pull it through, some way, maybe, maybe, (Sid continues to demonstrate)

And he started to get tangled rope, but it wasn’t working, how could I use magic? And finally he, he went back to fact finding again, and he looked and began to notice, he made a loop, and pulled it through, made a loop, pulled it through, made a loop, pulled it through, so he made three loops, and pulled it through three times. Now with that additional bit of data, How might I make that? How might I combine some of that, and so on? And so he began to play with, and eventually he came up with the idea that he could make three loops over my fingers this way, and then pull it through, and by golly, it works! (Sid has demonstrated this move in one fluid motion), now he then looked at it and says, well I want to tighten these, make them nice the way they want them, and I wonder how long that took, and he timed it, and he timed the old way, and he found it was so significantly shorter, and tremendously more satisfying to him. Now that was Solution Finding, Acceptance Finding, he went through the process, you don’t talk all those steps, you just do it, once you internalize it, you see,

[It makes it organic]

And that’s a very simple example.

[A classic example, Sid I can’t thank you enough]

Thank –you, It was fun being with you.